Group says Vietnam veteran memorial is 'unconstitutional'
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COOS BAY, Ore. -- Should a Vietnam Veteran's memorial be removed from a Coos Bay park? One group thinks so.
A separation of church and state watchdog group wants the City of Coos Bay to remove the memorial from Mingus Park because they say it's unconstitutional.
The Freedom From Religion Foundation sent Coos Bay City Manager Rodger Craddock a letter saying the memorial itself isn't the problem, it's the cross resting on top.
They say it's an, "endorsement of Christianity over other religions and over nonreligion," and must be removed "immediately".
>>>Read the letter here
Craddock says the issue isn't unique to Coos Bay. "The city received it (the letter) and we passed it off to our city attorney to review that and relevant case law," he said. "Obviously these issues are happening around the nation."
The memorial was donated and placed in the park in 1972 by Western Bank and the Bay Area Jaycees.
Some people at Mingus Park told KCBY News that they have no problem with the cross.
Donna Marsh and Sharron Cox were at the park on Tuesday, and they think it should stay put. "Well, it's not unconstitutional, it just is not! God is in our constitution, and a cross, and if the city wants to put one up in a park I think they should be allowed to do that."
You can voice your opinion at a public meeting at the Coos Bay Public Library on April 2.
The attorney for the group asking for the memorial to be removed is scheduled to speak to KCBY News on Wednesday.
Do you think the memorial should be removed? Log in and leave a comment below:
Absolutely Not, Stop trying to remove all the crosses, They show love, respect and faith. Please just leave them where they are placed by those who care and love.......
Indian Country
NO I do not find it offensive and NO it should not be removed.
Whatever haopens someone will be hurt, the religion represented known, is the cross, are there any others? During my time with the International Indian Treaty Council I have found other religions, some insular, the journalists, did they do any research? Before publication, who is the landowner? What was. The religion? If any? Sometimes it helps to turn something serious into something funny, hence in the last conment abiut the tree druids and then some
In a case like this, I will gave to speak French, I give up, since a true journalist would opt to research before before they publish an article, oh great now I have to apologize. To the french for before the us was involved they were in viet nam, are there any tree druids? Left tre in background was not erected or pisted for memirial though, jusr had to put my 2 cents in, I may have offended a few people a lot less than the veterans were though idk, before my time
Wwe are NOT punishing anyone. They have some options before they have to actually remove the entire memorial. And I am sorry you do not understand the seperation of church and state.....other wise you would know that this is against the law. It dosn't matter that is wasn't purchased with public money or not... it was placed on public property that is funded by the government money.
No
Jerry Lineberry: There are more atheists in the military than in the general population. So kindly stuff it :)
I just did my research on the that Christian cross erected in San Diegoâs Mount Soledad Public Park in 1954 . What an amazing story. It seems the person who didn't want the Soledad WAS A veteran and atheist, Philip Paulson, first sued the City of San Diego over the cross in 1989. Paulson has since died. Before his death, he was joined by Steve Trunk, also a Vietnam veteran and atheist, as a plaintiff, along with Jewish War Veterans of the USA, who filed a separate suit. Their complaint was that the Christian cross made this a sectarian war memorial with an inherently religious message that created the appearance of honoring only those of a particular religion who served in the countryâs military. As such, said the plaintiffs, it violated the Establishment Clause of the US Constitution as that clause is understood by the Supreme Court.The Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit found in favor of the plaintiffs on January 4, 2011. On June 25, 2012, the Supreme Court announced that it would not hear the case, which leaves the Ninth Circuitâs decision intact, to be implemented by the district court. In its opinion, the Ninth Circuit recognized that a case like this one ârepresents the difficult and intractable intersection of religion, patriotism, and the Constitution.â So there you have it . Those people who oppose Jeffersonâs âwall of separationâ between church and state will need patience to understand completely the reasoning of the Ninth Circuitâs holding in favor of the Jewish War Veterans and the other plaintiffs because it is extensive and legally complex. http://smmercury.com/2012/07/13/freethought-san-marcos-why-christian-crosses-dont-belong-on-war-and-veterans-memorials/
Toni , I just read the ruling on it . It was ruled unconstitutional because it conveys a message of government endorsement of religion, which is what many people have been saying also . If christians want appeal that's their right also ! But it WAS ruled in that way . You know very well this is not a christian nation and a 18 foot cross doesn't honor all the vets . Correct me if i am wrong but doesn't the KKK also use crosses for freedom of expression ??
Julie, I understand separation of church and state. I also understand what freedom of speech and religious expression are. What other group was refused representation in this park to show favoratism? You can't silence/'punish' the Bank and the Jacees by taking away their rights just because they were the only ones to make a donation.
Angel, that case is still being fought, thanks to the Liberty Institutehttp://www.libertyinstitute.org/liberty_case/united-states-america-mt-soledad-memorial-association-al-v-steve-trunk-al
Toni. It is against the law! It goes against the seperation of church and state. No public, government property can favor one religion over another, they can not support any religion at all for that matter.
No it shouldn't be removed. Instead some of these left wing wing nuts should be cordially invited to "serve a tour" and see just what is involved in becoming a VETERAN maybe the wont be so Judgmental.
Example A http://m.spokesman.com/stories/2011/jan/05/war-memorial-cross-at-park-ruled-illegal/ .
Julie, we can't understand how YOU can't understand this is NOT against the law. This is a public park open to free speech for ALL it's citizens. Has any other group tried to put up a message and been denied? No. You can't accuse people of 'discrimination' because you assume it 'might' happen
Leave it alone. It was put there to signify the deaths that were occurring at the time, not the end of the conflict. The monument to the right is for those who don't believe in anything. If it so offends you, look away.
public funds werent used? really? Who owns the land that this thing is on again?
Of course public funds weren't used what are you kidding ? Yes separation of church and state still applies regardless, it doesn't just count for " funds" .We are not a theocracy. We either stand behind all the Constitution , or it just becomes a doormat for the mobs-of-the-moment to wipe their feet on. The Constitution's first three words are "We the people," not "We the Christians." Quote: âReligious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.â â Thomas Jefferson. âThe government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.â â John Adams. One good schoolmaster is of more use than a hundred priests.â â Thomas Paine ( my favorite )
Leave it! It has been there since 1972! It is just a symbol in this case. A square monument could offend someone.
If it sits in a city park then good. We should be reminded every day if what others have sacrificed for us daily. I dont find this offensive at all. If you dont like it then maybe your freedom should be taken away. If it wasnt for our soldiers life would be way different. I can not fathom that people would find this offensive. WOW
some people just need a reason to complain about anything.
A lot of people died in that "conflict", who where other than Christian. The cross excludes them!
Only one cross there needs to be more
If people don't like this they can just go to some other park.
its apart of history why change it
lets find out what church these puks go to an request them take the cross of there church lmao
Leave the cross alone. Its our right of religion.
that is just wrong they deserve it just as every one else who has fought for this country and our lives
if its been there sine 1972 what's the problem get over yourselves an making a big deal over NOTHING
They better not remove it.. it is just a group of small minded people who expect the majority to bend to their way of thinking.. for once let them bend to ours!!!!
It's not theirs! They are WAY overstepping their bounds. How about "non ya!"
Really sad!! Support the men and women in our American troops, that has stood there for a reason for many years.
Matt, I am sure your dad at least appreciates the recognition? I am thankful for his service
There are more imoortant things to worry about. Just honor the men who made the sacrifice for your freedom's
Since you can't make everyone happy, do you do nothing st all, ever? Really these people need to get a life. I'll bet they never served in the armed forces, if they did I'll bet it was never a combat tour during a war.
A positive sign should not be considered wrong unless you prefer a negative sign!!! Quit with the religious persecution in America! !
LEAVE IT!! I SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!! my 18 yrs old son is going to boot camp this june and then he is going into the ARMY! next year... SO I AM PROUD ARMY! MOM... LEAVE!! IT ALONE!!
Thats right Lisa Coder-Aguilar.
My dad was a vietnam veteran. He was NOT a christian and I'm unsure if he would appreciate a memorial that excluded him by singling out a specific faith.
Doesn't matter where it sits. When it was placed there, these people either weren't born, didn't live there, or were not offended at the time. It has been there 40 years. Leave it alone!
I swear some people just need something to complain about!!!
I think some on here didnt read the article. This cross sits in a City Park not a cemetary.
Amen, Cindy
Leave it!
Not at all. People really need to get a life!!!
Totalitarians tolerance is showing through again from the denigration of society! Pray for them people â â â
How many of y'all even remember or were born in 1972? I do...my father is a Navy Veteran! He served in 2 wars Korea and Viet Nam...the only memorials at that time were ones placed over the grave of their loved ones or those donated to honor those who gave their lives AT THAT TIME! So if you don't like it, TURN YOUR HEAD! Don't disrespect something that is honorable to someone else!
As an athiest I am sick to death of Athiest activists runnin off at the mouth. It's not illegal becouse its miltary custom to bury a soldior or marine with the symbol of their religion which is why its denoted on your tags. If your making a memorial to the fallen then this is not only apropriate its regulation.
People find anything to complain about, its ridiculous! These people don't know the meaning of RESPECT